Talk:Bunpuku
Name Can we really say his name is Bunbuku? In the Mangastream translation, Shukaku doesn't say that the priest's name is Bunbuku, he says "Jeez, this is just like that Bunbuku tale..." and with this he is referencing to a Japanese folk tale. So I think we should remove the name he has for now. --Chrillbill (talk) 12:49, December 25, 2013 (UTC) :Not 100% any more since the variation. The article will probably stay as is until we get the raws though.--Cerez365™ (talk) 13:16, December 25, 2013 (UTC) ::His name ain't Bunbuku. Seelentau 愛議 14:47, December 25, 2013 (UTC) :::In which case, should we name the page to something else? When the Sage of Six Paths' real name was finally mentioned, we left the article titled as "Sage of Six Paths" due to confusion with the translations until we got the RAWs.--'NinjaSheik' 17:52, December 25, 2013 (UTC) ::::I decided to rename the article, since it was likely created by an inexperienced user without reading a different translation of the chapter, thus jumping to a probably wrong conclusion. We should get the raw this weekend, I'll see what it says and then we can do what needs to be done. Seelentau 愛議 23:04, December 25, 2013 (UTC) Wouldn't "Sand Priest" (or Suna Priest) sound better? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 23:05, December 25, 2013 (UTC) :Probably. I'm not that good with names, we simply use "Unnamed x" in the German wiki, so I copied that ^^' Seelentau 愛議 23:10, December 25, 2013 (UTC) ::I'd go with something a bit more specific, like Shukaku's previous jinchūriki. We do now Shukaku had three hosts, I'm assuming this was the second one. Omnibender - Talk - 23:34, December 25, 2013 (UTC) :::Why would Shukaku reference the Bunbuku tale? There has been no indication that the tale was ever mentioned in the chapter, and it seems rather ridiculous that Shukaku would refer to the story, when earlier the Suna priest mentions only Shukaku knew his name. So I would think, when Shukaku mentioned "Bunbuku," he was talking about the priest, not the actual story itself. In fact, the RAW version says, "分福に似てるな", not "分福茶釜に似てるな". --Metalguy09 (talk) 04:15, January 7, 2014 (UTC) Actually, Metalguy09, if you check Mangastream Chapter 660, Page 17, bottom panel, Shukaku says "Jeez.. This is just like that Bunbuku Tale". It's a reference to the tale of a raccoon that transformed into a kettle to save the old man who had rescued him. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 04:44, January 7, 2014 (UTC) :True, but each manga website seems to have a different translation of it. The website I read said something like, "It's like Bunbuku." I also had a link to the picture from the RAW version that said "分福に似てるな," but it doesn't seem to be on this page. Apparently, backing your statement with evidence is a big no-no here. --Metalguy09 (talk) 05:42, January 7, 2014 (UTC) ::I've downloaded the latest issue of WSJ and Bunbuku is indeed his name, although Viz calls him "Bunpuku".--OmegaRasengan (talk) 09:10, January 7, 2014 (UTC) Metalguy09, it doesn't help posting the Kanji without any kind of translation, no one here besides me would be able to read what you wrote, I think. That aside, what Shukaku says is pretty clear: 似てる niteru means resembles, Gaara resembles Bunpuku. Seelentau 愛議 09:18, January 7, 2014 (UTC) Suna Are we sure that this was already after Suna's founding?--LeafShinobi (talk) 23:15, December 25, 2013 (UTC) :According to Gaara when he relived his experience to Shikamaru and Naruto in Lee's hospital room, he said Shukaku was a corrupt sand priest. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 23:19, December 25, 2013 (UTC) :I thought about that, too. We don't know when they began to seal beasts in humans, but the First Kazekage mentioned that their temple already seald the Shukaku, which fits with the host being a priest. Furthermore, the surroundings of the cage remind me of Suna's wall, but that's just my opinion. Seelentau 愛議 23:20, December 25, 2013 (UTC) :Re-reading the chapter, I noticed that the priest knows the fate of a host when the beast is pulled out... how can he know that if he was the first host? Maybe from the other countries? But only Mito was a known host at that time... Seelentau 愛議 23:30, December 25, 2013 (UTC) ::The kettle and the background of this priest's cell are the same ones in which Gaara told Naruto and Shikamaru about Shukaku. We don't know the time period of that, he could be the second of Shukaku's three hosts. Omnibender - Talk - 23:34, December 25, 2013 (UTC) :::btw... in the end, Shukaku wasn't sealed in a tea kettle, huh? Seelentau 愛議 23:41, December 25, 2013 (UTC) ::::Nah, probably just metaphorical or using the kettle background statue as a reference. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 23:53, December 25, 2013 (UTC) Doesn't it say somewhere that 2nd Kazekage was the first to research Jinchuuriki?--Elveonora (talk) 23:50, December 25, 2013 (UTC) :3rd databook. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 23:53, December 25, 2013 (UTC) Second host? When was it said he was the second host? Jacce | Talk | 14:13, January 7, 2014 (UTC) :Never. In fact, I think he was the first. Seelentau 愛議 14:15, January 7, 2014 (UTC) Most likely had to be the first because of his age if he was after the founding of Suna. Munchvtec (talk) 14:18, January 7, 2014 (UTC)munchvtec Nothing in the flashback indicates when Bunpuku was the host. Is there any indication that he was the host immediately prior to Gaara in the chapter? Otherwise, just say he was Gaara's predecessor. Is there a specific word to say one is someone's predecessor without implying it's the immediate predecessor? Omnibender - Talk - 14:41, January 7, 2014 (UTC) :I think he was the first host because of his age. Every host got his beast sealed in him when he was a kid, so if it's the same with this guy and Gaara became the host immediately after Bunpuku died, Bunpuku must've been host since the beginning of the villages, but that would leave no place for another host. Seelentau 愛議 15:26, January 7, 2014 (UTC) ::Not a rule. He couldn't have been a host since kid, Suna doesn't exist that long lol. Perhaps he died like 40 years old but the prison life affected his health--Elveonora (talk) 15:42, January 7, 2014 (UTC) :::No, not a rule, but Gaara became host before his birth, Naruto an hour after his birth, Yugito at age 2, Killer B at 5, Rin between 13 and 17, Kushina as a child, too. Mito was the first host for Kurama, she was older at that time. She's the only host we know that became a host at an older age than 17 and that was because it was an emergency situation. While we don't know the circumstances of Bunpuku's hostification, we can be sure that he was young at that time. Or do you think this old man could still bring up enough power to throw sand around and inspire the Third Kazekage to fight with Iron Sand? Seelentau 愛議 15:46, January 7, 2014 (UTC) ::::Appearance may be deceiving, we have had a few strong grandpas, Hiruzen, Oro is old too despite looking the same since 20, Jiraiya, Danzo, A etc. Also Shukaku's hosts need no physical strength, they be like: "Me just standin' like this and sand does shit by itself" despite lacking in strength, speed etc. he might have had great chakra control or something. The first Suna Jinchuuriki was during 2nd Kazekage's reign, we don't know for how long the 1st Kazekage had his hat on. Suna village is no more than 65 years old, Gaara is 17 (almost 18) So let's say 64 - 18 = 46. So let's say 1st got poisoned by then yet to be 2nd a year after the village came to be, so 45 years. In that frame, we mustn't forget they had 2 jinchuuriki. So pretty much debunked that they were young.--Elveonora (talk) 16:11, January 7, 2014 (UTC) What were the First Kazekage's exact words during Hashirama's flashback to the first Five Kage Summit? In at least one of the scanlations, I recall him saying something like "our ancestors already sealed a tailed beast", which sort of implies that Sunagakure already had a jinchūriki when it was founded. The summit would have happened rather soon after the five main villages were established, since Hashirama didn't live that much after Konoha was founded. It would also tie in nicely with the Second Kazekage being the first to research the hosts as a way to increase the village's power. Bunpuku didn't seem like he was being used to make the village stronger. In turn, the research carried about by the Second Kazekage, with Shukaku's second host could have resulted in a more battle capable host, from whom the Third Kazekage would draw inspiration for the Iron Sand techniques. It fits. Omnibender - Talk - 17:39, January 7, 2014 (UTC) :::::Elve-kun, how do you know that the first Suna host was during 2nd KK's reign? Suna was established 48-44 years ago and thir priests (not ancestors) sealed Shukaku not long after the foundation, meaning 48-44 years ago, too. The 2nd KK was the one who researched Jinchūriki, yes. But I doubt he did that research on an old priest rather than on a young and powerful host. Seelentau 愛議 17:51, January 7, 2014 (UTC) Omni, just because the First Kaze said they had already sealed a tailed beast, that doesn't mean that they had sealed into a Jinchuriki, they could have just sealed it into a container. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 01:05, January 8, 2014 (UTC) Not sure how else can you interpret that Sell, first to research jinchuuriki to me says first to ever have Shukaki sealed into someone. The only one who otherwise researched them was the 3rd Kazekage, who through observation and his KKG copied the sand manipulation principle to make Iron Sand.--Elveonora (talk) 12:02, January 8, 2014 (UTC)--Elveonora (talk) 12:02, January 8, 2014 (UTC) :So because he was the first to research something, he was the first to seal a beast in a host? Then was the first dude who researched dinousaurs the one who... created them? Or so? I don't see why he researched the first host and not the second, since it would fit better in the timeline. :On the other hand, I never thought about SU's way of thinking. Maybe Shukaku was sealed in the pot and the first KK refered to that and not to a host. Seelentau 愛議 12:21, January 8, 2014 (UTC) Can we just agree that sense it wasn't revealed that he was the second or the first, that we just don't add anything about it. Maybe add something in the trivia section about it. Munchvtec (talk) 13:51, January 8, 2014 (UTC)munchvtec Quick Question Was he a ninja also or just a priest? Munchvtec (talk) 16:06, January 9, 2014 (UTC)munchvtec :Guards assigned to guard him were supposed to be strong, but I don't think anything indicates Bunpuku to have ever fought. Omnibender - Talk - 16:35, January 9, 2014 (UTC) Okay thanks Munchvtec (talk) 16:36, January 9, 2014 (UTC)munchvtec Magnet release? Seriously Foxie, Ulti and others. The little reason I thought you might have had was proven to not be there on Seelentau's talkpage. You may hate me because I'm always complaining about things and being in opposition to the way you would like things, but seriously, my beliefs that there's a conspiracy to turn this place into a fanonwiki have been reinforced lately. So Bunpuku's sunken eyes are suddenly Jinton markings. Great, thanks for letting me know, in that case I might as well go and list Ebizo as Magnet Release user as well and oh, Bansai TOO. It all now makes perfect sense!!! Every old fart with sunken in eyes uses Magnet Release and wait.... so does Kurama, proof? It's the eyes!!!--Elveonora (talk) 09:50, September 8, 2014 (UTC) :Please don't call me out on things. All I said was, if a page isn't locked, I don't care. If Seel cared enough, which he apparently did because it was enough for him to rage quit, he could have easily undid stuff and kept on explaining his argument. :As for the relevant article, And I don't care much about the eyes and more on the "I haven't seen him do it yet" part. So you're free to either bitch mode on the talk page or actually press the edit button, I really do not care what you do.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 09:56, September 8, 2014 (UTC) ::Really? Don't you think people have better things to do than going into edit wars? Also Foxie said: "make your edits, I will make sure they are not reverted" to Reliops, not to mention he can just lock the pages. I'm tired of this shit. enjoy your haven of free reign.--Elveonora (talk) 10:01, September 8, 2014 (UTC) :::Seriously, this whole back and forth has to stop. While I can see Gaara and Bunpuku as Jinton users, I personally would not list them as such just yet, but that's my opinion and those of many others differ from that apparently. Let's put an end to this story for the moment, it probably cost us one active user already. Until the next databook is released, let's go with how things are right now. Otherwise, this wiki would still be a battlefield years after the manga has ended. Norleon (talk) 10:33, September 8, 2014 (UTC) @Foxie you need to stop adding speculation. why is he an admin anyways. i see him do this a lot lately. Munchvtec (talk) 12:54, September 8, 2014 (UTC) @foxie, please remove the protect tag and remove the magnet release. we will be glad to let you add magnet release to all this stuff once the manga or anime says it is. Munchvtec (talk) 12:56, September 8, 2014 (UTC) @Norleon what do you mean by we lost an active user? Munchvtec (talk) 12:59, September 8, 2014 (UTC) :Ulti, Foxie and corps pretty much showed a middle finger to Seel regarding his analysis about Jinton and Seel decided to leave this wiki for a time. Everyone, can we at least remove the mention of Bunpuku having black eye markings from Jinton (since I proved that they may be sunken in eyes as Seel said) and add "presumed" next to Magnet Release in case of sand techniques?--Elveonora (talk) 13:01, September 8, 2014 (UTC) wow, is there really a reason it just can't be listed as presumed? seel was tired of the BS. Ten Tailed Fox and others are being ridiculous!! Munchvtec (talk) 13:07, September 8, 2014 (UTC) :Yes yes jump on the administration. That'll solve all the problems forever. Moving on, I'd rather just remove Magnet Release from Bunpuku because we haven't seen him use it. Is it likely he has Magnet Release? Yes, he was Shukaku's jinchuriki for so long people thought he was Shukaku. Does that mean he ever actually used it? No.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 13:11, September 8, 2014 (UTC) That's what I and others have been saying but foxie is stubborn and wont unlock the page for editing. Munchvtec (talk) 13:14, September 8, 2014 (UTC) Ty @ultimate. Munchvtec (talk) 13:17, September 8, 2014 (UTC) I think most are okay with removing Bunpuku, but Gaara stays. I respect Seelentau and his opinion, but his analysis was a complete load of crap. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 14:13, September 8, 2014 (UTC) Apparently it's becoming a trend to force people out of the wikia - and it's not even fodder editors? Well done - this is what happens when people take autonomy upon themselves. If Gaara is going to be listed as a user of Magnet Release, then why not Bunpuku? The Third studied him and mimicked his abilities to create his own after all… or are we just dismissing that? —Cerez365™ (talk) 14:46, September 8, 2014 (UTC) : I listed him for obvious reasons. They took it away. If we can list Tsunade as "presumed" Raiton for less evidence than this, then he can be listed Magnet Release. /shrug Take it up with those who would remove the obvious. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 14:47, September 8, 2014 (UTC) ::I was under the impression the First studied Shukaku (as in the actual Shukaku) and not the priest.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 14:49, September 8, 2014 (UTC) :::The databook or Chiyo said that the Third studied the previous host and created his magnetic sand. I'm guessing that's not Gaara.--Cerez365™ (talk) 14:52, September 8, 2014 (UTC) The manga says he studied the previous Shukaku jinchurikis abilities. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 14:52, September 8, 2014 (UTC) :Ah. Then color me wrong.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 14:57, September 8, 2014 (UTC) Actually, I'm all for listing Bunpuku and Gaara as Magnet Release users, I just oppose any mention of black rings having a connection to Magnet Release/Shukaku, because in case of Bunpuku, they may only be how his elderly sunken in eyes are drawn like and in Gaara's case we were told they are from insomnia. I also oppose us treating Magnet moving sand as a fact, it should be left vague with "presumed" or trivia mention--Elveonora (talk) 15:00, September 8, 2014 (UTC) : The rings are obviously connected. Three out of four users displayed them, all three from Sunagakure. Sand is connected because the Third studied Shukakus sand control to form his Iron Sand. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 15:02, September 8, 2014 (UTC) ::Decided. Add him as user. Make mention of abilities. Eyes are fine to leave out or add to trivia. I thought his eyes were sunken like Ebizo but they could be closed and ringed just as likely.--Cerez365™ (talk) 15:04, September 8, 2014 (UTC) :::Dunno where else to note this, so: Sand isn't magnetic. Not even diamagnetic. Just saying. There's no way sand can be moved through magnetism. This is supported by the manga, where Gaara needed to mix his sand into Yondi's gold dust to move it. If Gaara had Jiton, he could've moved the gold himself, without the help of his sand. He did not. So yeah, just saying. :::Sandaime could move his iron sand with Jiton because iron is magnetic, Fox. Not because its sand. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:04, September 8, 2014 (UTC) ::::And before this goes off topic in the wrong place. Talk:Sand or Talk:Magnet Release. As per Cerez's "Decided", Magnet Release is listed, eyes are currently marked as ringed in his appearance but not directly associated with Magnet Release. --[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 15:08, September 8, 2014 (UTC) For what it's worth, while I believe Bunpuku must have had access to Magnet Release (possibly as KKG even) and that it should therefore be listed as his nature type, I don't think his sullen eyes were a sign. YK only manifests them when performing Jiton jutsu, and Gaara always has them on due to his Ultimate Defence. Shukaku is a tanuki so his eyes are always darkened. We have no reason to believe Bunpuku possess a perpetual Ultimate Defence like Gaara did for his eyes to be perpetually ringed/darkened.--Reliops (talk) 16:18, September 8, 2014 (UTC)